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UnitedHealth uses AI model with 90% error rate to deny care, lawsuit alleges
Locking. About 50 reports. I’m a volunteer, and don’t have enough time for this.
“calls for violence in any form against any living creature” are a violation of lemmy.world terms of service. Comments calling for or celebrating violence will be removed, and may result in additional moderation actions
I think something had to die for my turkey sandwich, and I would kill again for another.
I used bleach on my countertops this morning killing millions of bacteria. Put me in Lemmy Jail.
I hope you step on a Lego.
Uncritical support for AIDS as the immune system is responsible for the deaths of millions of bacteria every day.
I completely understand the “calling for violence” part of the rules. The celebrating part is a bit much, though.
Lol
Super disappointed mods can’t parse people not being surprised or feeling something was deserved as a consequence of their actions, and advocating the violence.
My comment that got removed was “can’t imagine why this happened”, which neither calls for, nor celebrates violence, but expresses that the conditions leading to such an action, in our dystopian US are predictable, have happened before countless times in history all over the world.
The inability to acknowledge the fault of the powerful actors and system that created such conditions and utter lack of consequences for the rich and powerful in the US are what caused such responses for an aggreably horrific act. The issue that won’t go away, on Lemmy or anywhere else, and oversimplifying the above to “advocating violence” is disingenuous if deliberate, and idiotic or accidental.
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How was my comment about jury nullification against tos?
It is interesting. Calls for violence are against the TOS. There is actually nothing in the TOS or the sidebar rules about “Celebrating Violence”.
I mean that is fine and all, and frankly it is a good policy. Just kinda bad form to be deleting so many posts for something that isn’t in the TOS.
Seems the mods have added additional interpretations to the TOS and then used that as justification to delete a whole lot of the conversation.
Anyways. I like violent video games. Is that celebrating violence, how about football? Can I like football here?
I posted in c/news about the mods being overzealous in deleting posts in these threads, and it was deleted for rule 6. Fair enough. However, I have looked over the modlogs for the post regarding this shooting and the number of posts that are being deleted for relatively innocuous comments is excessive.
Being happy a bad person got shot is not : Glorifying Violence, Celebrating Violence, nor Inciting Violence.
More over, If this were someone like Kim Jong-Un, or Putin who had been shot, I find it hard to believe the mods would be nearly so overzealous to delete comments saying in essence “good, he had it coming”.
I don’t think the mods are intentionally skewing the conversation as much as they have an unexamined bias.
It is okay for people to be happy a bad thing happened to a bad person. Other people are okay to disagree with this statement. Let the discussion (within reason) happen. If you aren’t prepared to moderate a discussion, turn off comments on your magazine.
Mod: The moderators of this community - and those of other communities - have an easy-to-verify track record for removing any calls for violence and encouraging/celebrating past violence, even directed at despicable individuals. This does not depend on the target of the violence. It is a part of the terms of service of the server, which are not determined by the moderators of this community. Users also agree to these terms by accessing lemmy.world (I am not a lawyer - please contact an admin if you have legal questions).
Mods are always gonna be mods. It is the personality that is required to do a thankless job for no pay.
That said: Understand that the major social networks have legal departments. A lemmy instance is a few people working out of their basements who suddenly get a letter from the French version of the FBI asking for details about someone who is TOO happy about a politician getting got.
Best case scenario? That instance now needs to make a “public” stand for when they will and won’t cooperate with law enforcement and there is no way that ends well. Worst case scenario? The instance is considered an accomplice.
I enjoy lurking at resetera because holy shit. And it was hilarious to watch the mass ban waves of the “Socialism OT” members who had spent years outright calling for people to arm themselves and fight governments. And it started within weeks of people finding out that resetera had been sold to some major corporation (I want to say MMO Network?).
i have removed comments that were celebrating the death of hamas and hezbollah leaders so i do commit to being fair in my removals
What’s there to call for? He already got shot. Yay.
Being happy and calling for it are different
Being happy and celebrating are not so different.
Smile and BAN. Better keep you cams covered physically
Enjoying action against evil is not wrong.
But it may violate the TOS here.
Not all TOS are good, or lead to a better world.
Not all action against evil leads to a better world.
This one did.
But all inaction against evil leads to a worse world. Therefore all action against evil has a greater chance of making a better world than doing nothing.
thin line. many people got sent to jail in England for celebrating too enthusiastically online during the anti-immigrant riots. the internet today isn’t the same as the internet 15 years ago
the rules aren’t because the mods care very much. the rules are so than the website doesn’t get taken down and/or the owners/maintainers aren’t subject to serious legal penalties
Spare me, they’re being way more liberal with comments on Bluesky and they are far bigger than Lemmy.
You and the mods just want to protect rich people from group consensus about them being terrible.
Your paranoia about a slippery slop to violence is very transparent.
Bluesky has
betterlawyers.
England stands only with authoritarian governments with wrong think.
thin line. many people got sent to jail in England for celebrating too enthusiastically online during the anti-immigrant riots.
The only thing I ever saw about people online being sent to jail were these two .
Parlour, of Seacroft, Leeds, who called for an attack on a hotel housing refugees and asylum seekers on Facebook, became the first person to be jailed for stirring up racial hatred during the disorder.
Kay was convicted after he used social media to call for hotels housing asylum seekers to be set alight.
So if you consider that ‘too enthusiastic’ I uh… have a different definition of that.
Depends on where you live. There’s a very similar case in Germany from 2 years ago compared to what’s going on now.
In Germany a cop was murdered and someone posted on Facebook: “Not a single second of silence for these creatures.”
The courts have ruled that even “liking” a comment/post like that could be a crime.
I don’t speak German, but it sounds like what happened is that a lawyer pointed out that liking that post could be illegal under new laws, and is trying to get it struck down. So yes ‘could’ is carrying a lot of weight in this case.
And to be clear I’m as left as possible and anti-authoritarian, I just fail to see how being a massive racist and calling for people to be killed (and how to hide your identity, in posts following it) and then forwarding those messages to the police is somehow a Big Brother situation.
there were 6 arrests for social media crimes, including the one for the woman who actually kicked off the protests by sharing a fake name about the kid who attacked the concert
but that’s beyond the point. let’s look at the comment for Kay, one that you mentioned, that caught a sentence of 38 months
“Mass deportation now, set fire to all the fucking hotels full of the bastards for all I care… If that makes me racist, so be it”
that’s the portion that says he “called for hotels to be set alight”
see, to my interpretation he was saying “i would not care if they set fire to the hotels”. in the US, this would be very strongly covered under free speech. why? because it’s an opinion. in the US you can say “I believe that [xyz] should happen” and that is a belief. an opinion- something that cannot be censored. in the UK, not so much. but even in the US, you could be held legally responsible in some way depending on the interpretation of the law
and likewise, the platform hosting that controversial speech can face legal consequences. from serious fines to potentially even criminal charges depending on the enthusiasm of the government. (governments that are getting progressively more authoritarian and trigger-happy the world over)
the point I was trying to convey is that a website like this instance of Lemmy or any other must follow rules in order to stay out of legal hot water. how can you fault them for that?
if you believe this is not the correct thing to do, then you can pay money to host a website and then you can put your ass in front of the ringer to handle potential legal consequences for not doing your part to stop it. i don’t fault the mods in the slightest.
just for reference though, let’s compare and contrast the comment that got Kay arrested and put in jail and then some comments in this thread
a lot of comments in this thread are being deleted, let me see if i can catch some before they are deleted
“This bit of news does not bother me at all”
“I mean, I thought we were gonna eat the rich, but this will do.”
“this will probably lead to the increased militarisation [sic] of ceo security teams. People can start going after their family”
using the same level of scrutiny, each one of these comments could justify a sentence in the ballpark of 38 months like what happened with Kay
this is what i mean. the internet today is changing and social media admins need to change with the times or the hammer of the law can screw them. users here spamming about mod abuse do not fully understand
You’re making a good case for free speech absolutism.
using the same level of scrutiny, each one of these comments could justify a sentence in the ballpark of 38 months like what happened with Kay
That is an assertion that I highly doubt and I while at first glance your comment seems well enough thought out, I actually don’t see a lot to support the assertions made.
governments that are getting progressively more authoritarian and trigger-happy the world over this is what i mean. the internet today is changing and social media admins need to change with the times or the hammer of the law can screw them.
You are advocating for literally “Obeying in advance” to authoritarian regimes on a left leaning decentralized social media network.
He also said “every man and his dog should smash [the] f*** out of Britannia hotel (in Leeds)”, then he took his posts and:
After being warned by another Twitter user that he could be jailed, Kay tweeted: “I can categorically tell you now, I will not be arrested by Northants Police.”
During the posts, Kay said he was a Reform voter, accused police of two-tier policing and told someone who said the screenshot and posts could land him in jail that they were delusional.
He also copied Northamptonshire Police into one of the messages after being warned he could face court action by another user.
He didn’t just go to jail for a couple posts, he made a bunch of them and then after being warned they were illegal forwarded them to the police.
This guy is a dangerous if moronic racist, and really only has himself to blame.
You’re talking about being ‘silenced’ as if it’s being done by some monolithic organization; it’s not a government action, they can make whatever rules they want. You are free to make your own instance with your own rules.
Name a lemmy instance that was taken down because people expressed happiness at corporate shill executions. Heck, name any shut down by a government entity for anything.
Well, remove my comment then, because that’s awesome. Fucker deserves it, and LW needs to grow a spine. Killing these assholes is the way we’re going to get change.
There’s a distinction between ending evil and ending life. The former is worthy of celebration whether or not the latter overlaps with it.
He’s not a living creature anymore.
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💦😋🥾💦
Wish I would have known how over zealous .world moderation was gonna be when I signed up. Go take a nap for a couple days.
Any living creature can’t be the standard. That’s just absurdly Broad. By this argument you can’t have cooking communities. In any form against any living creature? I can’t cut down a tree on this website apparently.
Did you read this comment or apply any thought before you hit post? “Against any living thing” is so hilariously broad it makes me wonder if you’re just trolling.
CEOs have not been held accountable for their actions by the legal system. This is inevitable with the way the United States is set up
If this happens to two or three more CEOs over the next couple of months, they’ll change their position on gun control, not change their behaviors that made somebody do this. And “they’re coming for our guns” morons would find a way to not only excuse it, but fully support it, at least at first.
So then just buy illegal guns to carry out your crimes. Problem solved.
If this happens to two or three more CEOs over the next couple of months, they’ll change their position on gun control,
Say what? Nearly every CEO who is willing to talk about firearms is already pushing for more Gun Control with both their words and their money. The obvious exceptions are of course Firearm CEOs and maybe Elon Musk.
Seriously, have you ever looked at whose funding all of the Gun Control efforts and Politicians in this country? It’s a veritable whose who of Democrat Billionaires and CEOs.
they’ll just define “our” as “voted republican” - EZ Clap
Are you under the impression that pro2a people are corporate shills? Lol the fuck
They are inadvertently. Corporations say the right words and the pro2a people fall in line. Look at all of the millions of citizens that voted directly against their best interests in November because they’ve effectively been fed messages that made them disregard what actually effects them. Obviously not all pro2a people are in this camp, but there’s a lot of overlap between those folks and people getting manipulated by other rich and powerful forces.
Most pro2a people vote repub because they’re the only ones that remotely say anything pro2a even though they’re completely shit at it. Almost all gun owners are single issue voters. If the dems dropped the anti gun rhetoric they’d sweep elections.
It’s funny you think they’re not. They’ve been dick-riding manufacturers and lifestyle companies for decades. How much “Glock” or “Mossberg” merch have you seen out there? Those are eager corpo shills.
Glock and Mossberg are gun manufacturers, not health care providers…the fuck
as a hobby, it’s basically just another form of consumerism, and the culture surrounding it is not unlike that of car culture, with the same purported values. freedom, agency, maintaining control over your own life, it’s all just marketing speak to drive customer traffic, and ends up being politicized only really insofar as everything must exist inside of a political context.
there are definitely advantages to having guns for certain populations, certainly, marginalized populations that are already at risk, but those populations already have more prevalent firearms use for obvious reasons, and would probably maintain higher firearms use rates regardless of legality as a result of their marginalization, where more strict gun laws won’t really factor in, or rather, would be just another meaningless slap-on charge to extend sentencing.
most of your other actual pro2a people are gonna by random hobbyists, hunters, and fudds, who can’t really be expected to put up any organized resistance against anything, and the other half are people who would already be a fan of any plan to march around and take away other people’s guns, because they’re ex-military chuds, or cops, or what have you.
I implore you to learn about the history and funding of the NRA.
Lol I know exactly who pays into the NRA, they’re just corporate shills now nothing more. They don’t do shit for gun rights and most gun owners want them to desolve.
Absolutely this, this is a nucleation point for disarming the citizenship. Step one for a dictatorship.
NYS has already done this, by and large.
No, I’m talking more like this https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_gun_control_argument
It’s actually pretty easy to get a pistol in New York State as long as you get proper training and register it. Also the NYC pistol ban was struck down a couple years ago.
I’m more worried about a federal gun ban that the Trump administration can use violence like this as a justification.
NYS already banned suppressors for the plebes. Only cops can buy them in NYS. And its highly unlikely they had a NYC permit, for carry, only cops get easy NYC permits, and also C execs like this guy who pays off the right people, in the correct amounts.
So, this means, it must have been a cop that did the shooting. Because it could have been an oligarch with the legal gun, but they couldn’t get a suppressor in NYS.
You can make a pistol suppressor from seamless tubing and steel wool, threaded barrels are not uncommon or controlled. You’ll be missing the booster needed for reliability, and it’s not going to be very good, but expansion chamber volume is expansion chamber volume. Reportedly the shooter had more than one malfunction, which lends credence to a DIY can, or a shitty gun.
If the goal is murder, another +15 years for NFA violations isn’t a big deterrent.
you could probably 3d print a booster, and use a spring, I bet. it wouldn’t be reliable since it’d get hot, but I don’t think there would be too big an issue with too high of pressures or anything causing it to break. alternatively, you could just go with something that doesn’t use a tilting or rotating or locking barrel mechanism, like a steyr GB, or even just a hi-point, which I think is just straight blowback.
you’d also probably wanna go with a mainly wipe-based suppressor rather than one with just baffles, since you’re making something that’s basically disposable anyways, and those can fit into smaller packages while being more effective than something with baffles.
Hell at that point you could pretty easily just 3D print the whole gun. It won’t live through more than a round or two, but if that’s all you need it for?
this is potentially true, though if there’s any flexion or breakage in the 3d print material, you’d probably some underpressure in the cartridge, not that such a thing would matter much, or a more troubling lack of accuracy, which may be significant even at this distance, but probably not. both especially if you’re not using hardware store parts. at a certain point, you do just kind of get into shinzo abe doohickey territory, with that sort of a thing, maybe easier just to use a couple pipes. on that note, you could also conceivably use a wipe-based suppression system with a classic hardware store four winds shotgun, OR a contained gas firing system, if you’re going the probably over-complicated 3d printing route, especially if you avoid some larger pressures which are probably unnecessary.
you really don’t need any advanced rifling or superior ballistics or anything, at the distance this guy was at. he could’ve even just used a knife, or a brick, or his hands, to be honest, especially since the CEO was not dressed in ballistic armor or protected in really any way. though I imagine the public would be somewhat less sympathetic to those methods since they’re seen as kind of brutal or psychotic, even if they have the same end result.
If this happens to multiple CEOs, companies will just implement secret-service style security for the C-suite. Wouldn’t even be a rounding error in CEO compensation.
they already do that shit. elon already has a pretty big security retinue and his ass almost never goes out in actual public anymore, only ever hosts private events with verified people and pretty good security. most CEOs and billionaires aren’t gonna be that paranoid, but most of them don’t have to be, and they already tend to live in totally different contexts than your average person.
what I’d be more interested in knowing is how this guy figured out that this particular guy was going to be outside this particular hotel at this particular time. this wasn’t a crime of pure opportunity, this was something which seems like it was probably planned in advance. if it was publicly accessible where this guy was going, that’s a much easier and cheaper thing for businesses and CEOs to solve, and is probably the most important part of this kind of security.
I mean having to live in a fortress and being afraid to go into a coffee shop without armed guards is no way to live… it wouldn’t be a fun time for those poor, sociopathic bastards. But I guess having those extra digits in their bank accounts makes up for it?
They have the money to hire a 24/7 coffee shop on their private island. I don’t think it’s so bad for them.
they legit just send out the interns to go get coffee, so much that it’s a trope at this point. these people barely raise their own fucking kids, they don’t give a shit about any of those like, minor pleasures. they have cocaine, and other rich people who are constantly willing to kiss each other’s ass in a big circle, human centipede ouroborous style.
Living in fear with constant security has to be better than just treating people better, right?
Sounds like the miserable existence they deserve.
We really are just a few years away from Cyberpunk, aren’t we? I’d actually say a mix of both that, and Cloud Atlas’ last timeline.
Nah, the US will just provide secret service details to any and all C level execs.
There’s an interesting book called Narconomics: How to run a drug cartel that goes into detail about why there’s so much violence in the drug world. It all comes down to there not being a legal system where people can peacefully resolve disputes.
If Pepsi stole Coke’s formula and brand name, Coke would sue them. But if a rival cartel infringes on your territory, you have no choice but to get to murdering.
Now, I don’t know the motivations of why this healthcare CEO was shot - and I don’t condone violence. But I will say that I see some strong parallels where it feels hopeless from a consumer point of view when dealing with insurance companies. The whole process, including the legal system, seems tailored to take away your power. So I’m not at all surprised that violence has occurred.
"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.”
Hopefully this makes all those money grubbing assholes consider how many of the millions of people they’ve fucked over have access to firearms and their location.
Might make tech bro’s think twice when they say they take full responsibility, especially when it involves bullets deservedly so. I’d like to think guillotines are the better way to go in all this but bullets are fine.
The CNN video thumbnail goes hard so I decided to make a low effort fake album cover.
Are they sure it wasn’t a pre-existing condition?
Mods just deleted another of my comments for saying
“For America to get better, we need to be okay with bad things happening to bad people”
I am not entirely sure how this statement is calling for violence. Or Glorifying it. Or is even controversial.
The Mods here suck.
A few years ago on a cruise we sat at a table with a doctor who said he was in charge of all United Healthcare insurance approvals. This guy didn’t just mention he had to sometimes refuse people care, he was absolutely giddy about it and took sadistic pleasure in seeing other people suffer. We moved to a different table to get away from him.
I guess we’ll find out eventually, but I’ve got to wonder if the shooter was pushed over the edge after someone close to him died due to refusal of care by United Healthcare.
Huh.
A fine start, looking forward to more.
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I’m glad the fucker is dead and I hope his successor meets the same fate!
Let’s hope this is the start of “consequences” for asshole corporations
What a terrible tragedy, these are incredibly dark times. How will we as a nation, nay, a species, recover? This is a really really bad thing, and I do not like it. What has this poor, poor CEO done to deserve this? God, it should’ve been me! It should’ve been me!
I wonder if it’s possible to form a fight club, but with class as a basis
CEOs of exploitative corporations should take notice.
edit: the fucking mods are out of line.
For real, Right!?
Getting to the find out stage.
