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Let me get this straight, you’re siding with the enemy occupation? If not, then why would you have a problem with a sovereign nation retaking their own country.
“A stay-behind operation is one where a country places secret operatives or organizations in its own territory, for use in case of a later enemy occupation. The stay-behind operatives would then form the basis of a resistance movement, and act as spies from behind enemy lines.”
They leave spies in their own territory when being invaded in order to get their country back. How dare they‽
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NATO will be fine. They’ll just have to up their game a bit militarily. If America wants to be insular and wrap a flag of isolationism around them, it’ll hurt in the short term, but after four years of being more independent of Americas tit, its more than likely the US that will find itself less relevant globally.
Even before this, there was already rumblings, not just in China, but elsewhere, about ditching the american dollar standard and returning to the gold standard. That’s just going to gain momentum as soon as Trump starts trying to wave his mushroom around.
4 years? Try 6 months from now.
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The fuck are you smoking bro
Their comment reads like a bad MAGAcid trip
that everyone believes CIA/US empire disinformation when a D is in the whitehouse does not mean the US empire is full of truth and love for all.
Tell this to an Estonian or a Pole or a Lithuanian and they’ll punch you. You might not know this, but Russia has been working on a cassus belli (A reason for war) against all those countries. You can read national defense strategies on each of those countries to see what they are concerned about.
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Good.
NATO is a trash organization. It’s basically Reich Lite.
It is the Fourth Reich
Oh wait, that's just post-WW2 West Germany
There were more Nazis in West Germany’s justice department after WWII than during Third Reich for example
Fully 77 percent of senior ministry officials in 1957 were former members of Adolf Hitler’s Nazi party, a higher proportion even than during the 1933-45 Third Reich, the study found.
Nazis in post-WW2 Germany’s government
From 1949 to 1973, 90 of the 170 leading lawyers and judges in the then-West German Justice Ministry had been members of the Nazi Party.
Of those 90 officials, 34 had been members of the Sturmabteilung (SA), Nazi Party paramilitaries who aided Hitler’s rise and took part in Kristallnacht, a night of violence that is believed to have left 91 Jewish people dead.
Alot of nazis basically kept doing what they already did like in the US’s operation bloodstone.
Now watch red maga walk back on that too, like all of blue/red maga promises.
The only good thing that could’ve possibly come out of this, and it won’t even happen.
I mean if Europe wants to increase their military funding and move items in house I think that would be a wonderful idea. Because America is not a reliable partner in this at all in the past two decades.
Multiple EU countries want to, but they also want to give stuff to Ukraine and it’s difficult to do both.
The perfect excuse for the military industrial complex to move manufacturing overseas.
So I’m going to say that the military industrial complex is already there, it would simply be a rapid expansion.
The problem is that America has all the money.
If Europe gets into a war of course the US will help. But the same can’t really be said if the US gets into a war. The rest of NATO needs to be able to hold the fort if the US were to get suddenly …distracted in the Pacific
If Europe gets into a war of course the US will help.
How sure are you of that? Sure, if Russia marches towards the Atlantic Ocean, but if Russia decides to create a security buffer zone in Finland? Or the Baltic countries?
NATO has only survived for as long because of the commit of the US. Come January NATO is dead as well as a sovereign Ukraine.
If Europe gets into a war, the US will side with Russia. Trump has been a Russian asset since the 80s, and it’s clear that he gave Putin classified documents relating to American spies and informants during his last presidency when they suddenly started dying a few days after he met with Putin. And even more classified documents relating to American espionage against Russia than the ones he requested before that meeting were found in Mar a la Go.
can you cite a source on the spies dying a few days after he met Putin? Not saying it’s not true, just curious.
I wrote that incorrectly, it wasn’t a few days after he met Putin, but a marked spike over the months after. He requested classified documents related to CIA operations like 3 days before the meeting with Putin. It’s also a series of events over a couple of years because it wasn’t until at least a year later that the FBI raided Mar a Lago and found more classified documents related to intelligence operations. There’s no real way to know for sure unless Trump or Putin admit it, but the correlation was and is suspect by even the intelligence operations of the government and is partially why the inquiry into Trump was called for in the first place.
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/26/us/politics/trump-affidavit-intelligence-spies.html
Are you fucking stupid? Which is the only country to ever invoke article 5? How many other countries listened to the call for this injust war?
Are you fucking stupid?
yes.
The biggest thing will be all those nato countries who can’t do anything with their US weapons if the US says so.
If only there was a country in europe that had voiced this concern in the 50s, all of that could have been avoided… Oh wait.
That is only if they want to continue to buy new weapons, not if they intend to male weapons in Europe
No. I mean the weapons they have now. F35 for example. If a war happens in Europe, will those planes be useful without US support and authorizations? US can do a lot of harm to Europe with that.
Yes let me explain my answer I didn’t elaborate properly.
I think the only recourse the US has if European countries use these weapons without authorization is that the US will not sell more weapons.
And if Europe continues to intreases it’s weapon and ammunition production like they have the last two years that might not be a deal breaker for Europe
I’m not sure Europe can make F35 parts for example, which will not fly for long without it, or ammunitions for various US weapons. I hope it’ll be a wake up call to make and use EU instead.
Just my two cents as an assembly line guy: Parts on aircraft fall into three categories
-Big custom fuckoff parts. They’re not high tech but they’re huge and they’re a specific shape so you need a huge, precise and very expensive mould/die/whatever to make them. Anyone with the aircraft and a decent engineer could design a machine to make these parts but they would be left with a smoking crater where their wallet was after getting the mould made.
-Easy parts. Sure, an aircraft fuel pipe is worth 20k, but the civilian parts are made to higher standards anyways, we can find one no problem.
-Secret technical complex parts. Proprietary cutting edge stuff, which is frankly just bolted onto already complete aircraft. Obviously you can’t replace it if you don’t even know how it works, but the US doesn’t let that stuff out of their direct control very often anyways.
Don’t fucking talk to me about engines though, those are a whole different beast
TLDR: We can totally keep our F35s in the air as long as the parts we’re replacing aren’t the skin panels, the engines, or the Secret Third Thing. And as long as we have the money.
That sword cuts both ways. The F-35 has parts from all over the US and EU. This doesn’t extend to every weapon system, but if the US refuses to support F-35s, their own F-35s would lose support too.
Thank fuck we didn’t give up our nukes in the UK.
What does that accomplish?
Defense
Not a lot. The British weapons are reliant on US maintenance. Won’t be credible for long if the US doesn’t support them.
Isn’t this a bit like saying that because I drive a German car that’s maintained by the dealership, it’s not my car?
I’m sure it wouldn’t be tricky for the UK to move the Trident weapons program closer to home, or to align with allies in Europe (lol).
Putin won’t invade you
By the time Russia is knocking at the door of the UK, its already game over.
That said, I would not want to be Polish right now.
Autonomy.
Love the implication that the shitty imperialist anglo organization was ever credible.
Can NATO still mean something if the US leaves? I think so, but there is much soul searching to be done.
Sorta, but not really tbh. The US was always intrinsically backstopping the security side of things. Without us in it - and I mean this very seriously - it’s not really a credible threat to Russia or anyone else anymore.
NATO article 5 will still have use in self defence, but obviously it will be way less impressive
The article is only powerful if it’s enforced.
I suspect that Putin’s direct report won’t really sign on to any sort of defense of European countries.
It seems like a very real possibility. A new, EU followup seems like a natural next step to protect the borders and peace.
Next stage of Russian ops will focus more heavily on splitting Europe now that UK and US have been severed off
It’s death by a thousand cuts and nobody seems to care. Smh
Straight out of Alexander Dugins book…
PAX EUROPA PAX EUROPA PAX EUROPA PAX EUROPA PAX EUROPA PAX EUROPA PAX EUROPA PAX EUROPA PAX EUROPA PAX EUROPA PAX EUROPA PAX EUROPA PAX EUROPA PAX EUROPA PAX EUROPA PAX EUROPA PAX EUROPA PAX EUROPA PAX EUROPA PAX EUROPA PAX EUROPA PAX EUROPA PAX EUROPA PAX EUROPA PAX EUROPA PAX EUROPA PAX EUROPA PAX EUROPA PAX EUROPA PAX EUROPA
Would be nice. Hungary tho 😤
Hungary can join the Russian union state alongside Belarus.
NATO will kick us to the curb and rise to the challenge. We will need them one day and they will say no.
It will just be renamed to No America Treaty Organization
Technically not… They’d still have Canada.
Don’t you dare call us American! Next thing you know we’ll stop apologizing for everything and actually build a military with jets instead of snowmobiles!
Sorry about that. Can I be Canadian now?
Can you skate and hit a top corner slapshot? If so, yes. Here’s your complimentary Tim’s card! That’s ten free coffees on the house!
Sorry, but I’m not a sports guy. I like maple syrup though, does that count for something?
Can you track down thieves? We’ve had issues with maple syrup heists!
I’ll allow it.
Rename it NUTO. No US Treaty Org.
Expecting the US to not maintain its monopoly on the demonym “American” is the same thing as expecting dogs not to bark at the mailman. Other western hemisphere countries shouldn’t have dragged ass becoming independent.
It’s not the “no americas club,” they’re allowed 1
Nato without USA is still bigger military than Russia
Yep, and thankfully the EU has seen the way the US is going and started to react appropriately.
We would eventually crush Russia in a real war, the problem is that without going to actual war, we get to use only a small part of that.
But with a fraction of the nukes, which is the actual big stick part of NATO
A lot of that is because rest of NATO is under US umbrella. Not like nukes are high tech at this point. Most of Europe could get nukes real fast if they wanted, but everyone has been better served by it being to many Nuclear Powers up to this point
And I expect they will get nukes real fast. Ukraine is probably going to go for that, tbh. It’s kinda their only option at this point.
In the game of nukes you don’t really need many.
You can destroy the world just so many times.
The rest is just for showing who has it bigger (the arsenal)
But are we bringing nukes to a biological warfare… umm… party? Or hell, AI drones/nanobots?
It took two nukes for Japan to wave the white flag. Do we really need 5,000+ nukes for anything? France has 290 and UK has 225. Thats enough to wipe one or multiple countries clean off of the map without any form of surrender.
Yes, antimissile systems will shoot down most of your missile volley, so you need to launch enough that they become overwhelmed and the few that make it through accomplish your goal.
We don’t know exactly how much “most” is, but its enough that the powers that be consider our current level of armament to be necessary.
Shooting down a nuclear icbm doesn’t really help as much as you think, if it catches it.
Not to mention the atmosphere lighting up wouldn’t be much better
You know they don’t go critical when you shoot them right?
Doesn’t that depend on how they’re set up? I’d imagine in the 50+ years since they’ve been invented they would have designed it so it could, specifically because modern anti missile defenses exist.
I mean, I know world governments can be dumb, but I would imagine they’re not that dumb as to bother maintaining a key super weapon just to not upgrade it / design it so that it won’t work if used.
Maybe but no not really the triggering process is extremely fast but kinda fragile because everything needs to be compressed just so.
They upgrade them, it’s public knowledge for the budget. Usually it’s faster smaller or different form factor plus renewal programs.
This is where I think there is a misunderstanding. You don’t just fire only nukes at a country. You fire a multi pronged attack with regular bombardment aswell.
Will the ones shit down rain down radioactive dust everywhere?
Yes, but to a way lesser degree.
The bombs become really nasty by creating a big chain reaction (boom) and then radiating the dust the explosion creates (aftermath) which then spreads everywhere.
Without a controlled explosion there will be significantly less radiating reactions and radioactive dust.
It’s like deep inhaling the smoke of a package of burning fire starters VS throwing said burning fire starter into a warehouse full of fireworks (and for the sake of this argument you cant leave the warehouse and have no equipment whatsoever)
Both will probably fuck you up a bit if you’re to close, but one is comparably insignificant.
