One House Democrat said he spoke for others in the wake of the president’s stunningly feeble debate performance on Thursday: “The movement to convince Biden to not run is real.”
The House member, an outspoken defender of the president, said that House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries and Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer should consider “a combined effort” to nudge President Joe Biden out of the race.
Crestfallen by the president’s weak voice, pallid appearance and meandering answers, numerous Democratic officials said Biden’s bet on an early debate to rebut unceasing questions about his age had not only backfired but done damage that may prove irreversible. The president had, in the first 30 minutes of the debate, fully affirmed doubts about his fitness.
A second House Democrat said “reflection is needed” from Biden about the way ahead and indicated the private text threads among lawmakers were even more dire, with some saying outright that the president needed to drop out of the race.
“Biden can’t be persuaded let alone pressured”
Which sums up both Biden’s strength and all his problems in one statement.
My prediction is that one of them doesn’t make it to Inauguration Day and the country panics as a result. Is likely? No. But on this timeline it makes the most sense
If Trump wins and dies before taking office would be a lot worse then Biden dieing.
Before Trump’s body is even cold there would be endless amount of conspiracies that Democrats killed Trump. The only saving grace would be Trump’s VP and other blood suckers all have diarrhea for brains and lack the charisma to take advantage of the situation.
It’s too late. They should have listened when we all said that before. But MMW, if they switch now they’ll not win in November. Stay the course and there’s a squeak of a chance.
Here’s the thing, if they push Biden out and pick Harris, she can’t beat Trump.
If they push Biden out and DONT pick Harris they’re literally telling the public that this presidency is not legitimate.
If they push Biden out and DONT pick Harris they’re literally telling the public that this presidency is not legitimate.
The rest of your post makes sense, but if they choose a new person to run they aren’t admitting that this presidency is not legitimate. How the fuck do you even get yourself to this point? And how does this nonsense even have any upvotes?
Because the DNC would be literally saying neither are competent to do the job.
It’s almost like it was a stupid fucking decision in the first place to make Biden, Obama’s embarrassing baggage, run for president.
So many of us fought this, and so many of us now hate the democratic party for this. They get zero sympathy from me at this stage.
I’m voting against Trump in this election just like I did in the last election, but after the conservatives retire the narcissistic criminal, all bets are off.
Okay you know what? That’s it, elections are cancelled until morale improves
You joke, but that’s exactly the next step trump will take if elected to secure “president for life” for the federalist society.
Ah did he do that while being president? I didn’t knew Biden was secretly a trump clone
Hate to give attention to polls, but pretty much all polls say otherwise, so “bot pushing narrative” orrrr?
Not gonna happen. Also, the debate won’t make any difference. People made up their minds a long time ago on Biden vs Trump they are clearly not budging no matter what happens with the candidates. Only if they fall over dead will they be replaced.
The election will come down to like 2000 voters in some swing states. Even if 1% of people in those states changed their minds it could swing the election.
Don’t expect retards to accept this. They’ll just huff their fucking copium as if Thursday didn’t happen.
Clearly the blue team fans will simply abandon their team going into the superbowl.
I honestly think Bernie should run independent.
It’s clear Biden has no chance of rapidly changing his policy or stance on anything, meaning he will most likely lose to Trump anyway.
Even if Bernie gets only 20% of votes, it would be enough to get the DNC to split.
Amd no that 10% would not have been stolen from Biden. I saw Hillary’s horrendous turnout, people don’t vote when there’s not a candidate worth voting for.
The problem with that isn’t Bernie. The problem is Trump. Bernie splitting the Dem vote is a more sure-fire way to get Trump than Biden running as it is.
Really cool feeling when your state has primaries long after super Tuesday and the candidates were already mathematically locked in before you get a say. I swear I only get a chance to influence presidential primaries half the time or so. It’s strange to watch a ‘democracy’ keep moving when sometimes your voice doesn’t count because of where you’re from.
We need the primaries to all be on the same day. This isn’t the early 1900’s anymore. States that are getting left behind need to organize to just join super tuesday. The party would not survive disallowing that many delegates.
when sometimes your voice doesn’t count
Humans worship the powerful, not the mundane.
Then it’s simply not a democracy, yet I still often hear politicians, media pundits, and normal people claim it’s the best one. Where does the truth lie?
The truth is that no system of rule is functional long term, anarchism is the only stable system, it worked for 200k years.
So long as the state is how humans organize, there will be boom and bust cycles until either ecological collapse or invulnerable fascism brings us to a new terrible stable state.
The only logical position (in the U.S.) is to vote blue to buy time in hopes that anarchism can be reached by other means.
… Oh, not that kind of truth probably
Yes, the truth lies.
Perhaps it’s lying there because truth is dead.
And people keep saying that democracy is at stake… dude, you guys don’t have it to begin with.
Who were you gonna vote for in your primary that wasn’t biden? I mean from the tone of your comment I’m assuming you didn’t vote in your primary at all. But if you had which one of those candidates were you planning on voting for that you didn’t because you didn’t think it mattered? Or do you even know who was on the ballot in the primaries?
Democrats have nobody to blame but themselves. They stayed mum for three and half years and now they’re reaping the whirlwind.
☝️
Stayed mum? They actively fought against allowing anyone to hold primaries.
But we did hold primaries and Biden won in a landslide
Putin also wins by a landslide. It’s easy to do if you ban all the competition.
Nobody noteworthy was competing and all of the elections were landslides. I understand wanting to go through the motions in all states, but it really made zero difference.
Nobody noteworthy? “Going through the motions”? I guess democracy is just like making love with some kind of boring spouse? Okay, fine by me just don’t blame me when I leave the presidential option blank in November if Biden and Trump are the only two options on the ballot. But I do live in a blue state, Jesus H Christ thank god I can vote my conscious.
Weird, my conscience is to vote against the corrupt, fascist, rapist with a grudge against America. After dealing with Trump’s presidency and the aftermath, I can’t even imagine not voting for Biden. And I’m in a red state, so my vote definitely doesn’t matter.
Well before this we had neoliberals I guess so…. But yes vote… even if you have to leave it blank, vote your conscious…… in a red state I don’t think I could live there, but vote regardless
That’s the point - they closed ranks and kept riding the Biden train whilst desperately hoping that no one would notice that wheels were in danger of falling off.
They did? That’s weird I remember voting in them just like I do every 4 years.
You can generally vote in primaries every year where one is needed, not just every four years fyi, if you’re in to voting and all.
We’re pretty clearly talking about presidential primaries here buddy.
Sure but you specifically mentioned it so I wanted to say we can vote in primaries outside of presidential elections
Thank you for your pivotal contribution to the conversation.
Anything I can do to help with your circle jerk
I didn’t get to vote in a primary here in Florida
That’s cuz Biden ran unopposed.
So that’s the point that DancingBear was making and I was reinforcing- as Democratic voters, we were not presented with a choice this cycle
You weren’t paying attention. Many states banned anyone else from the ballot, even though there wasn’t cause for that by the rules.
There were no debates (Something that would have given Democratic party members time to decide if they thought Biden was electable.)
Some states were told their delegates wouldn’t count.
There was no fair Democratic Party primary. If you think there was you were either not paying attention, or you didn’t want a fair primary in the first place.
This problem is a problem of the Democratic Parties own making.
This problem is a problem of the Democratic
PartiesParty’s own making.
Even Russia puts the opposition on the ballot. That wasn’t an election it was a roll call.
He has never sounded like that before and he has the record to show that he can do the job. Republicans tried to say he was on drugs because they heard him actually speak at the State of the Union.
There was no reason to expect him to sound like he did. If they do the second debate, I hope he doesn’t try to recall every single statistic and just stick to the big points. But Trump might just not debate like he did in the primaries. In fact, it would be stupid to give Biden a chance to recoup.
Biden has been conspicuously avoiding speaking at unscripted public encounters for quite a while now, though, and reading from an autocue at SotU is a far cry from having to react on the fly and put together coherent arguments in response to moderator questions and Trump’s lies during a debate. I have the feeling Biden’s staff knew full well that the debate was going to be rough going into it.
I don’t think they were expecting this at all. Otherwise they wouldn’t have had him recite such specific information. You could tell he was flustered. If they knew it was going to be like this, I think they would have done a completely different strategy.
I think the cold threw him off and they couldn’t pivot strategy. It should have been a focus on his image from the start. A few times where he laughed at Trump he looked good. In the after party he even sounded completely fine. That should have been the goal of the debate instead of reading receipts.
The thing is, Biden and his staff called this debate and agreed to its terms. Trump also behaved exactly as expected by avoiding policy and spouting off as much nonsense as possible, just as he did in 2020.
The conditions of the debate were exactly as Biden should have expected going into it, so the idea that he was caught off guard doesn’t seem likely.
“Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth.”
I think the cold legitimately threw him off. Not that he was feeble from the cold. Just that it made him more easily flustered and he snowballed.
I’ve also had interviews that I was “prepared for.” But trying to remember all the information at the moment was difficult. Hell, I was told one of my interviews was the best they had ever seen, and the last question had me flustered until I finally came up with my talking points after a minute.
That’s what it felt like to me, a flustered man in a bad interview that snowballed.
Shout out to the neoliberal dipshits who thought we needed another right-of-center incrementalist to beat Trump.
That one really fucking worked out…
I fully confronted a person that claims Biden was the best shot against trump in 2020. I pointed out how he was not given that we are here now.
They still think that this is the best case scenario… like would they ever admit they were wrong?
Okay, I’ll bite. Who has a better chance?
Bernie did in 2020.
I think people misunderstood my comment.
Biden being the choice in 2020 didn’t fix anything, it only delayed the problem.
As evidence by this year’s election.
A year ago almost anyone with the endorsement of Biden would’ve coasted.
Maybe one of these people? Not that I like them, but they are not trump, have a chance, and are not on their deathbed.
- Gretchen Whitmer
- Pete buttigieg
- Jamaal Bowman
I’m convinced Whitmer refused the first time because she didn’t want to suck the DNC’s requirements so that they’d choose her as the preferred candidate in their sham primary.
I’d take a Whitmer-Buttigieg ticket in a millisecond.
That has a nice ring to it. You’re on to something here.
Gretchen is such a wonderful person, too. I used to deliver groceries to her and her family. She just used an app with the username Gretchen W. She always helped me get the groceries from my car and into the kitchen if she was home.
Her daughters were also extremely polite and willing to help.
Maybe we should’ve had a real primary with debates and interviews and stuff =(
We need an America 2 where we can apply all the lessons we’ve learned, like primary every election and judges that can be recalled easier for corruption.
Isn’t it too late to get a new democrat as candidate anyway, right? I mean you need to register in all states before a deadline no?
There, a candidate must win support from the majority of “delegates” - party officials who formally choose the nominee. Delegates are assigned to candidates proportionally based on the results of each state’s primary election. This year, Mr Biden won almost 99% of the nearly 4,000 delegates.
According to the DNC rules, those delegates are “pledged” to him, and are bound to support his nomination.
But if Mr Biden were to drop out, it would be a free-for-all. There is no official mechanism for him or anyone else in the party to choose his successor, meaning Democrats would be left with an open convention.
Presumably, Mr Biden would have some sway over his pledged delegates, but they would ultimately be free to do as they please.
That could lead to a frantic contest erupting among Democrats who want a shot at the nomination. Source
2024 is going to be the year of frenzied elections with no preparation
People out here just winging shit like the future of the country doesn’t matter
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I always figured the role of president was more of a figure head.
I get the buck stops with them, they can do their veto and special powers thing, and I’m sure there are other “ultimately this is your decision” type things.
But it’s the administration you are voting on.I’m sure it feels amazing to have “that one guy” steering your country. But, I’m sure they mostly do what their advisors tell them to
I want a president who has a vision and some form of understanding, but who knows what he doesn’t know and knows how to get that information. I want someone who I know has the best team guiding them and has sound judgment.
I can’t fucking believe this is an impossible ask. :(
Did you open a case for that
Also being young enough that they’ll actually have to live with any fuckups they create would be a nice bonus. Our current options don’t have any skin in the game.
I mean, that’s partly true. From my keeping up with politics, some of the candidates actions are their own but about 80% of the job is what you described. Your party recommends actions to you and congress sets you up for most of your actions. Vetoing things is only common when the opposition holds congress.
I’ll highlight though that lately the presidents have seized more and more power and continue to do so. It started with Bush basically declaring war without congress and lately it’s been Biden doing things like canceling student loans and blocking the border up. Which I get that’s all power they’ve always had, but they’ve been reluctant to use it improperly because it’s so abusable. Now those robes are off and so trump will come into office and immediately write laws by himself basically
The US has been on a governance crisis for some time now. It is slow and gradual, but they already had a coup attempt. It is the sort of things that is surreal and only possible to see when you look at it from a multi decades POV. Like Asimov’s foundation, it will take centuries and lots of things can happen in the mean time, but you can already see the empire imploding, rotting from within. Rome took almost 3 centuries to fall, and it was more like an erosion rather than crumble. I can see something similar.
They should force Hillary on us again.
Bidens about to go down as one of the worst Democrats in the last century because of his hubris if he doesn’t. His decent domestic agenda will be overshadowed by him ushering in another trump presidency by ignoring all the signs for him to drop out. He didn’t early last year when polls repeatedly showed that people thought he was too old. He didn’t when unnamed democrat was leading him by 10 points. He didn’t when his Gaza policy alienated large chunks of his base. If he doesn’t in the next couple weeks when there will probably be polls coming out showing majority support for him stepping down then he’s gone full head in the sand.
It’s like RBG all over again, if these people could just get it through there heads to quit while there ahead they could preserve a decent legacy, instead of tarnishing it by leading the way to a regressive order that overturns everything they’ve done.
Dont worry the DNC will find a way to blame Bernie for it
And lemmings and redditors will blame progressives for it.
it wouldn’t be an issue if people didn’t keep saying it
Which is just like ignoring/not testing for covid and calling it over
I don’t blame people for wanting to distance from the topic. The problem with Biden isn’t his ability to lead and govern. It’s his image. Talking about it directly hurts his image. BUT it’s still a discussion that needs to be had.
It would be like Covid if talking about Covid also made it worse.
I’m going to blame the people that have been trying to gaslight everyone into thinking that Biden was fine.
He was fine. He has never sounded like this before. Just look at the State of the Union for what people were expecting.
This was him being unprepared and trying to remember statistics from 3 and a half years of accomplishments, with a cold, while running a country, while being 81. It reminded me of some bad interviews I’ve been in, honestly.
Bullshit homie, he sounds like this all the time, it’s just progressing faster. They made up a new term to cover it up a few weeks ago and then grampa ran off in his bathrobe and CNN had to call some silver alerts.
For all the people that talked about how horrible cnn has been to Biden, they were cutting him off to help him. Look back on his ‘gaffes’. They’ve been bad for a long time.
I literally don’t know what you’re talking about with bathrobes and silver alerts. What are you smoking?
Never work or live near an old folk’s home?
quit while
therethey’re aheadif these people could just get it through
theretheir heads to quit whiletherethey’re aheadFuck me that’s just fucking laziness innit?
It’s too late for this kind of thinking. We can’t change horses mid stream
You have to, if your horse literally can’t make it across. It may not go well, but you have no choice.
Okay enjoy drowning I guess.
Don’t look up!
Biden will lose against Trump. Changing candidates this late isn’t ideal but it’s better than guaranteed failure, and it’s better than after the convention if Biden deteroriates from where’s currently at.
I’m not worried about him “deteriorating”. Anyone who has paid attention to him at all knows that was not reflective of his actual ability to lead. Hell, right after he sounded fine at the after party for anyone still listening.
I’m only worried about people thinking he’s deteriorating. A lot of people have literally only seen that debate from him in the last year and nothing else.
If we stay with Biden, he needs to get really aggressive with his image. Hang out with influencers, go to games, don’t talk about controversial politics while having fun (like with the ice cream).
If we go a different direction it needs to happen now.
I really don’t care which we do. But it’s an important conversation to have. This debate fiasco is 99% on Biden being unprepared. But image is everything for a candidate.
I thought that, but after last night, I wouldn’t let Biden cook in my kitchen without supervision.
It’s not too late now, but it’s absolutely too late in October when Biden needs to appear multiple times per day and across about 5 states. If he can’t do that, then he should step down now.
I see the down votes, but I took this as a Wag the Dog reference. They’re pointing out just how terrible an idea it is for Biden and the democrats to keep trying to sleepwalk through this election while Trump and the republicans pull out all the rhetorical stops.
We can change horses if there’s overwhelming pressure to do it and it’s exceptionally well planned.
What we absolutely can’t do is nominate someone else against Biden’s wishes and still have him on the ballot as an independent… that’s how you get folks like Woodrow Wilson.
I, personally, think it’s doubtful that much pressure will materialize, but I’m prepared to be pleasantly surprised.
Meh. Planning be damned. Just float someone under 60 and they’ll crush it.
Stay the course
I disagree. I actually think you’d see a boost.
-
Acknowledging age concerns of the electorate = good.
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Running someone fresh that appeals to this American Idol-esque popularity contest = good.
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Running someone Republicans don’t have their talking-points fleshed out on = good.
Me too. I think you could change to more or less anyone and get a bump.
It really seems as though the populace is extraordinarily weary of these two tired old assholes.
Anyone under 60 would mop the floor with Trump’s toupee.
You have to understand that the average American functions off of lizard brain impulses. It would be probably go like this:
Acknowledging age concerns of the electorate = show of weakness.
Running someone fresh that appeals to this American Idol-esque popularity contest = show of weakness.
Running someone Republicans don’t have their talking-points fleshed out on = show of weakness.
America operates on principles of running someone strong who says they will always be strong and that if they ever become weak while in office and they acknowledge this to be replaced, the entire party goes with them like a tug boat latched to a sinking oil tanker. Trump didn’t win because he’s smart or a decent human being. He won because he exudes baseless confidence like a broken nuclear reactor exudes gamma radiation.
You know I agree with much of what you say here. All I’ll say is that while there’s uncertainty in the outcome of this route, I’m convinced there is certainty at this point that Joe Biden will lose. Why? Because there is all there is to know about Joe Biden. Call it media saturation; diminishing returns… There is fundamentally nothing Joe Biden can do or say that people don’t already know and now their minds are pretty much made up. The desperation-play of even asking for that debate shows the Biden campaign knows how bad of a position they’re in… And it of course backfired tremendously.
So at this point, I view it as uncertainty versus a known loss.
And in that respect, I’m looking at this alternate path as appealing to those lizard-brain American Idol-watching popularity-contest voters. If we could distill election cycles down to a handful of things, chief among them would be “People Vote for the more interesting candidate” and “People vote for the fresher face” – Within the backdrop of age being a huge issue for >70% of American voters when polled, that rings even more truthful now.
So personally, I say we take the chance.
Running someone fresh that appeals to this American Idol-esque popularity contest = good.
What if no such person exists?
Then you just lose and Trump becomes President by default. Do you have confidence that Democrats can rally behind an actually named person? And if so, what is the name of that person?
I’m no Democrat. But I wouldn’t consider “replacing Biden by somebody” to be a serious option. You need to say “Replace Biden by SPECIFIC NAME HERE”. Otherwise you’re just throwing away the election before it even begins.
Are you asking that because you believe nobody is lining up wanting to be President, or that there is no candidate who fits that bill? Because I can think of half a dozen who both fit the bill and have obvious political ambitions:
- Whitmer
- Newsom
- Buttigieg
- Booker
- Abrams
- Warnock.
All far more youthful; all far more charismatic. All who have enough national name recognition and would trounce Trump in debates and contrast of age alone.
The question to me isn’t, “who else,” it’s, “Will Biden voluntarily step down and endorse such a person at the convention?”
The polls prove this could work:nobody likes either candidate, people want new faces, and age is a problem. Just give them another choice on the Democratic ticket and it’s game-over for the convicted felon. If I could I’d be money this gives better odds than sticking it out with Biden.
I’m not into Democrats, so I honestly don’t know half the people on that list.
Newsom needs to start resigning today to make the election. I think he’s off on technical grounds. And others have pointed out that he’s lower than Trump on a lot of polls. Buttigieg is homosexual and sad to say it, homophobia is on the rise. After the party’s experimentation with Hillary Clinton / Kamala I’m not sure that its a winning strategy. I know middle-aged white guy WASP is annoying, but its a trope for a reason.
In all cases, Trump will deny the other pick as a “loser” and refuse to debate. You’ll be going into the election without ever getting on National stage. Its a huge set of risks.
I’m not necessarily against it. But I also don’t think Biden’s performance was worse than Trump’s last night. A lot of this seems to be just Democrats getting nervous about themselves and their own choices.
Whitmer
I see she’s getting some press. I wouldn’t be against her, but I also don’t know much about her in general. Can she hold up against the Republican hate machine? We all know that Hillary couldn’t do it, so what makes Whitmer any better or more prepared?
Biden did hold up vs Trump. Better or worse, he did prove himself. I recognize that people are worried about “newer, older Biden”. But there’s severe risks in switching a candidate now, especially as vetting likely hasn’t been completed by either side yet. (Democrats need to vet to figure out how Republicans are going to attack her). Its a complete mystery.
-
If your horse is on death’s door. And you’re crossing a stream. You’d better be prepared to swim.
It’s like RBG all over again, if these people could just get it through there heads to quit while there ahead they could preserve a decent legacy, instead of tarnishing it by leading the way to a regressive order that overturns everything they’ve done.
This is one of the core problems of the Democrats: hubris. When Obama had a majority in the House and Senate, he could have easily pushed through a Supreme Court appointee to replace RBG. But she wouldn’t go. Because in her mind, there was no one qualified to fill her shoes. She was convinced that she was the GOAT and that to voluntarily step down when it was safe to do so would be an insult. This is coupled with the fact that Democrats were absolutely, completely certain that they would win every election for the presidency after Obama without trying and that the “coalition of the ascendant” would easily put Hillary into the White House, and then she could be the first female president in US history and have an easy PR win by replacing an aging female supreme court justice.
I’m willing to bet we have the the same problem here, but in one person: Biden probably thinks the Democrats could never field anyone for president better than him and that his victory is a lock without any real effort to campaign for it again.
Fun fact: the last time anything like this happened it was with Grover Cleveland. Cleveland was the 22nd president of the United States who lost his re-election bid the first time around, and then got re-elected to be the 24th president of the United States. We are officially in the second Gilded Age.
But we’re already past the primary period… Are we suggesting having a quick partner anyway? Who should we put in his place? I haven’t heard a single suggestion for who else to elect. Are we saying Harris should step in? Who should she run with?
Newsom; Whitmer; Pritzker; Buttigieg; Shapiro; Khanna; Klobuchar; Walz; Booker.
I even saw someone mention Wes Moore and I was reminded that he’s a pretty good moderate governor of Maryland now instead of “only” a West Point graduate and author.
No mention anywhere of Warren… Did she fail too hard in the primaries?
Gosh I’d love to see her debate Trump. He would never agree to it though, as she’d rip him to logical pieces.
No, in an election where age would be a larger issue than it already is I’m assuming anyone who would hit 80 in office is a non starter.
We need to be training up some younglings.
Wow, you’re right, I didn’t realize she was that old.
Pritzker is the only name on there with the chops for it. Maybe Walz, but he is DFL so I can’t see the DNC even looking at him.
Well, half of those were people who ran against Biden, so that makes sense.
I remember being impressed with Klobuchar, and incredibly impressed with Buttigieg (though sadly he’d lose a lot of the religious vote, sigh). I wish I liked Booker more… But yeah there are some acceptable options there, that’s a relief.
So yeah, lightning primary?
