- cross-posted to:
- politics@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- politics@lemmy.world
Summary
Following Donald Trump’s recent election victory, Google searches for “4B,” a South Korean feminist movement advocating a “no sex, no dating, no marriage, no children” stance, surged in the U.S.
The 4B movement, popular among young women on social media, promotes individual resistance against conservative politics and the erosion of reproductive rights.
The trend reflects a broader ideological divide between young men and women in the U.S., where women under 30 are significantly more liberal than men.
You must log in or # to comment.
Wait for more polarisation.
Man here, I fully agree with this.
I have been hoping for something to bring down the birthrate of the states that restrict abortion since the restrictions started.
I had been hoping for mass migration of 50% or so of all women from the relevant states, but I see how that can be difficult.
I truly hope that they are successful in gaining their rights back.
Completely reasonable response to Project 2025.
No sarcasm, I’m quite serious. This is the play.
My only holdup is that I fear this would result in increased sexual assaults. I think the messaging is great, but fear for the collateral.
Okay so we beat the shit out of sexual assaulters in the streets. One problem at a time, baby. The men are at fault here, we don’t blame women for being sexually assaulted for withholding sex. That’s some “she was asking for it with the way she was dressed” shit.
That’s some “she was asking for it with the way she was dressed” shit.
Or more like “she was asking for it simply for existing”
deleted by creator
what the fuck is this
fanfic
It’s funny, switch the roles and you’ll have a situation that actually happens outside of shower conversations.
So… MGTOW for women?
Okay, bye
You don’t have to give up marriage, sex, and dating in order to swear off men.
Well said, dragonfucker.
Ironic, given that the men they’re protesting against desperately need to get fucked.
Metaphorically speaking, at least.
This is not gonna work because all conservative men are closeted homosexuals.
They are desperate for children though
Hey me too! That is not a bad idea! Have companionship with the opposite sex that is also attracted only to the same sex! No babies and you’ll have a good companion.
I think that’s called “having a housemate”.
So democrats will swear off men reducing their population in the future while the cons just carry on like normal? This makes no sense.
And if you speak up on Politics Lemmy about feminism, or fight back against sexist men as a woman, mod Jordan Lund will build a case to ban you. He is a fascist.
Sounds like a great way to ensure that conservatives are the only ones having kids. This is just liberal women organizing their own extinction.
You’re getting downvoted but it’s the logical end.
Only if you assume a person can’t possibly have different political views from their parents’. It’s certainly more difficult, I’ll give you that, but it does happen.
Have you not been paying attention to practically every progressive issue in the last decade? Pretty sure the people actually making decisions about what gets promoted on social media aren’t your friends.
women are more than baby incubating machines, holy shit
I didn’t say they were. I certainly believe that a woman can do whatever she wants with her body, and if some women choose not to have children, that’s their right, as far as I’m concerned. But, the fact of the matter is, if women aren’t having children, before too long there won’t be any more people. It’s really as simple as that.
I certainly believe that a woman can do whatever she wants with her body
sorry but I find that a bit hard to believe when your previous comment is basically saying that women should breed to ensure the survival of their ideology
I find that a bit hard to believe
Why? Two things can be true at once. I can believe that a woman can do whatever she wants with her body, while also acknowledging that if liberal women stop having kids, before too long there aren’t going to be very many liberals.
Unless you think my saying that is some form of coercion. But that would be silly because my words can’t force a woman to do anything. My words aren’t taking away any woman’s agency, especially since I’m not necessarily advocating for anything. You assumed I was, not that’s not my problem.
The other option is to have daughters with increasingly fewer freedoms than us. Fuck that noise.
Wouldn’t this make it even worse? This is basically ensure that an ever greater % of people grow up right wing, so that Republicans can stay in power longer with more extreme ideas
Yup. I want kids, but I’m leaning towards not having kids due to, well… gestures broadly
Why the fuck would I want to inflict this world on a child?
While parents certainly have an influence on their children’s ideologies and political leanings, it isn’t deterministic. Those children do still have agency, and external factors such as education (which yes, I know is under attack) and urbanization matter. Or even just simple youthful rebelliousness.
Regardless, I wouldn’t advocate left-leaning people to have more kids in some ill-advised attempt at a reproductive arms race. Among other issues, we are still staring in the face of environmental collapse.
Self-selective removal of oneself and those of probable left-leaning male partners from the gene pool is certainly one strategy left-leaning women could try in the fight for a political environment where their rights are protected and progress further. Probably a terrible strategy, but certainly one that could be chosen.
I respect any individual’s bodily autonomy and am not trying to make a statement in favor of men having a right to access or anything like that. It’s just an illogical movement if the goal is a society that has more individuals likely to support women’s rights - the gamble that thirsty men of the left will somehow save the day or that it would affect men on the right is kind of silly unless we’re assuming that there is a statistically meaningful amount of (secretly) left leaning women out there choosing right wing men as partners. (I wonder if anyone has tried to focus a campaign on seeing if the latter group exists in a sizable amount and can be convinced to be vote left - somebody should look into that and see how it works out. /s)
It’s almost like 4B is something that the right wing would push to further their current advantage in household size in the US…
Yeah, the whole concept of 4B only works if a vast majority of women are on the same page, and given the results from this election, they clearly are not.
It was stolen.
I call bullshit. Any politicaly aware liberal/progressive woman can sniff out a conservative dude 5 miles away. They ain’t fucking these kinda dudes unless they actually wanna be fucking them. I just don’t see it
Yep, it also doesn’t consider the 46% of women that voted for Trump or the near 50 million women that couldn’t be bothered to vote at all.
This is a minority movement that is probably not much more than ineffective virtue signalling.
If you’re wife doesn’t want sex then that’s usually a big problem for the relationship and could even end it. How many guys are going in to the ballot box in four years time and voting differently because they decided to get a divorce? It could possibly even entrench their views.
I’m probably going to get bored of saying this, but people that disagree with you need to be engaged not derided.
4B 4ever!
Guys always ask me how to meet women. I say, " It’s easy, be polite and learn how to communicate." None of them succeed.
It’s really not that hard, I don’t get it. The only conclusion that I’ve been able to come to is that guys think being empathetic, polite and communicative will get them friend-zoned or something. That they have to be pushy about it or the gal will just be like, “you’re such a sweet guy, I think you’re a great friend”. You know, friends talk, partners fuck, or something like that.
Does anyone actually say that? I swear I’ve heard it or something similar before…
…Anyway, no, idiot, you’re getting friend-zoned because they’re just not into you that way. Being aggressive just gets you shut down faster too because you come off as impatient or desperate, or that you’re trying to do the song and dance because you have to, not because you want to. I don’t wanna be around a guy like that. That can be very concerning because it can indicate that all you want is sex and you’re just trying to find the right buttons to press on the “sex machine”. I get it, sometimes you just wanna fuck; but I’m a
dragonhuman being, not a sex machine.But… If you want a reason why you shouldn’t be concerned about being friend-zoned: personally I’m more likely to trust and view someone favorably if they’re friends with someone I already know, or they’re surrounded by people who have good things to say about them (especially if they’re enbies and/or women). Doesn’t mean everyone’s like that, but if you have lady friends who enjoy just hanging out with you then that tells me that you’re way more likely to respect me, treat me like a dra… *cough* human, and that I’m probably going to be safe around you. Those are good things. Those are things I need to feel before I can feel anything else. Again, I can’t speak for everyone, but there’s a glimpse into how my feelings seem to work, and why I don’t think you really need to be scared of the “friend-zone”.
Also, when it comes to wanting to “just fuck”; I’m waaaayy more open to that idea if we’re already good friends and neither of us are dating someone. Not everyone is like that, I’m probably kinda unusual in that regard, but… yeah.
Well said. I never worried about the friend zone bc I made my intentions known, “I like you and I want to date.” If she says she’s not into me then that’s it. 9/10 that women will be my “wingman” to find someone that likes me that way.
There’s a clear difference between showing sexual interest and being pushy that I don’t think your post considers.
If you’re dating a women and don’t show any signs of sexual interest she absolutely will be thinking “this guy isn’t interested” and move on.
I don’t think it’s surprising to say that women also are often uninterested in being friends, but it’s still often an expectation that the men will make the first move.
It’s one of the fine lines and grey areas that needs to be trodden in life if you want a satisfying relationship.
I literally just said that what you’re talking about turns me off, and now you’re telling me that you know better than I do?
Fuck being polite: go shove it up your ass.
I know I generalised but I think what I said is mostly true and I’m just as entitled as you are to put my point of view forward, sorry that I have a different opinion.
I’d like to make it clear that I’m not saying it’s OK to be pushy but making a distinction about showing sexual interest that can sometimes be a grey area and a fine line to tread.
If you want to go on a hundred dates with the same person before you’re OK with sexual escalation to make sure someone has pure intentions or whatever, you do you, but it’s not typical and I expect that they’ll move on after enough time of wondering why they’re dating someone that appears frigid or un-interested in sex.
One of my best friends said “if I’m on a third date with a guy and he’s not made a move, he’s probably got a tiny penis”. I know that’s a horrible thing to say and to hear, but it’s true. Most women expect men to make a move at some point and if they don’t, she’ll be wondering what’s wrong.
There’s no need for the hostility, though given the election I understand you’re probably just lashing out and it’s not personal. I hope you feel better soon.
If you want to go on a hundred dates with the same person before sexual escalation to make sure someone has pure intentions or whatever, you do you, but it’s not typical and I expect that they’ll move on after enough time of wondering why they’re dating someone that’s not interested in sex.
No one said hundreds of dates. Hell, if we mesh well enough then it might only take a single date. However, coming up to me and being like, “hey girl, wanna fuck” is only gonna get you somewhere if I either already know (and trust) you fairly well, you have lady friends who I trust and can vouch for your character, or you’re a smoking-hot, literal, honest-to-god anthropomorphic animal person. That’s what I’m talking about. And no, I’m sorry, you’re not a hot dragon-man. As much as I like to pretend they exist, they really don’t.
You don’t even have to say it out loud, if that’s the vibe you’re giving off then I’ll get sketched out. If I feel like you just wanna fuck, then the thought that’ll be going through my mind is: “can I trust what this person says, or are they only saying things to figure out how to get me to open my legs? Am I safe to put myself in their arms and let them fuck me, or should I be concerned that they won’t stop if I tell them to? Will they respect my boundaries and let them shrink naturally as our trust and relationship grows, or should I be concerned that they might injure, abuse or even kill me if I say ‘no’?”
One of my best friends said “if I’m on a third date with a guy and he’s not made a move, he’s probably got a tiny penis”. I know that’s a horrible thing to say and to hear, but it’s true.
*sigh* Here’s the thing though, women who say shit like that really aren’t worth your time. That’s a red flag, dude. That’s a sign that your relationship is going to be potentially based on an unstable foundation. Physical appearance is only temporary. What if you get into a bad car wreck and your penis has to be removed? A girl who’s only about dick size is going to give it some time before walking away. A girl who’s about you will probably be willing to come up with creative solutions to sexy problems and find ways around your lack of manhood (ever considered macguyvering a dragon dildo into a male-compatible strap-on?).
I like a guy who’s willing to be vulnerable, who’s willing to take his time and so on. My view is that’s probably going to result in a much happier relationship than someone who judges based on penis size. Maybe it’s just because I’m not in my 20s anymore and most of the horny teenage hormones have worn off at this point (not that they did me any good, but that’s another story), maybe it’s because I grew up with a Dad who doesn’t like to talk about his feelings and was nearly impossible to read.
However, I’d much rather have a guy who’s willing to talk about how he’s feeling than a guy who wants to fuck on the first date. The latter isn’t going to be able to give me a shoulder to cry on, but the former might (yanno, after he’s done crying on mine lol; which is not a problem). The latter probably won’t share my interests, but the former might.
And you know what, maybe you’re right.
Maybe I’m the weirdo here, for thinking that someone who cares that much about your dick size is shallow as fuck and not worth your time. Small peepee just means there’s all the more reason to get creative with sexy time.
Maybe I’m the weird one for thinking that there’s a difference between a romantic relationship and “a friend you like to fuck” (aka “friends with benefits”).
Maybe I’m the weirdo for thinking people need to be more chill about sex for this exact reason; because I suspect that many people think that the feeling you get from sex or lust is what love is.
There’s no need for the hostility, though I understand you’re probably just lashing out and it’s not personal. I hope you feel better soon.
It’s the “I know better than you” that gets to me. Maybe you didn’t mean that, if so then I apologize. There are a lot of people here, however, who seem to believe they know more about what a woman likes than women do; or they believe that a woman doing what she wants with her body is discriminatory.
For those with a bad understanding of women: women get horny and lonely too, you really think women aren’t gonna struggle with this themselves? The only reason I don’t think I’ll personally struggle with it is because I’m only kiiinda straight lmao. I have other options. Furthermore, however, do you really believe that women don’t know what they want? Maybe they just don’t want you because you throw up all kinds of red flags.
Learn to be empathetic, communicative, caring and respectful. You really don’t want the shallow girls who only care about dick size. They’ll just dump you the moment a guy with a bigger dick comes along or, at the very least, you probably won’t have a very fulfilling relationship. Sex shouldn’t be the goal you’re striving for, sex should be something that happens along the way; and guys who act like it’s the former are a huge turn-off for me.
You make good points. You’re getting the wrong end of the stick but I don’t think it’s worth trying to explaine myself further.
be polite
oh thank god!
Learn how to communicate
4B doesn’t sound like a bad idea to me
Communicate and talk are two different things. People talk to get what they want. Communication means you have to listen and give a shit. So many guys talk for 1 reason, sex. Women want sex to but don’t an asshole that treats them like shit afterwards. Some guys cant get that and think women should be blessed in their presents.
Oh I’m really good at the listening part.
I don’t like the talking part. That’s the part I’m not good at. Or likely will ever be, which is ok. It’s scary.
Not really… from personal experience, I couldn’t find a single woman to date or show interest until I was 25. I was and still am super nice and polite, apparently too much for most.
I fully believe I am just ugly, and it is what it is. After being rejected for so long and never having the chance to have those experiences growing up, it did leave me in a bad place for a while.
Good news is I did meet someone at 25 and we’re married now over 10 years and have 2 kids. This was also right before the rise of dating apps, which I wonder what impact they would have had if given the chance to use them.
Being too nice can definitely be a turn off for women, all though you’re never supposed to say it, if you put them on a pedestal it can lead them to think that they can do better. I know that sounds horrible to say, but it’s mostly true.
A lot of women like “manly men”, in a world where gender roles are being broken down it’s another thing you’re not supposed to say, but it’s objectively true.
Natural beauty is pot luck, although it’s true that “ugly” guys can do a lot to scrub up and become attractive in other ways. Statistically speaking, 80% of women want the top 20% of men, from that you can extrapolate that their are a lot of people in relationships that are settling. Another harsh truth, but that’s life.
So in short, that’s what happens to most of us. Women chase the top 20% which most of us aren’t, then when they start getting worried about getting older and becoming a spinster, they settle. You’re probably a lot less ugly than you think and a lot more normal!
Using statistics and generalizing about women wanting only “top” men is very manosphere of you. Incel forums ban you so you had to come stink up Lemmy with the steaming shit that comes from your mouth or something?
It’s factual. The source is Tinder, 80% of women are only swiping on the top 20% of men and I believe that extrapolates to real life, I also don’t think it’s surprising, I understand why anyone would want an attractive mate. Sorry that upsets you.
Tinder as a source is hilarious.
Whatever the source, I don’t think it’s surprising that women are a lot more selective than men, it makes a huge amount of sense in evolutionary terms.
And given that a small percentage of men are getting chased by the majority of women, it’s unsurprising that they’re used to getting screwed over, causing all men to get cast with the same aspersion.
Maybe it’s you that’s the issue?
Also, you can get any woman with a net.
Realy? Has Animal Crossing lied to us?
Dweeb lord equating a game to real life.
Sure, but I get women consensually.
The bar is so low and yet they almost all fail. It’s down right scary. Just be polite and talk like a human being. Oh, and guys, don’t send the d pic unless asked. It really doesn’t do what you think it does.
What? You mean that awkward pose with us choking it like “the dog having something in their mouth,” is cool? Also me say hi then dick pic doesn’t get you going?
The “bar” argument doesn’t exist. Plenty of women date shit bags. lol
The issue is, they go with sole intention of meeting a partner. Women rightfully have their guard up. If you just interact with someone in a hobby you both share interest in, she’s more likely to be into you. But not after a fucking week for crying out loud!
